In our podcast AT FILMS Patrick Holzapfel talks to guests of the Viennale. Before the festival actually starts, he invited the curators of our retrospective together with the Austrian Film Museum "Film as a Subversive Art 2021. A Tribute to Amos Vogel" to join him in a call and discuss their programs. The first of these dialogues features Nicole Brenez who describes her curatorial ideas, cinema's necessity for finding answers to the Holocene exctinction and the guiding light of Amos Vogel.